Buddy and Efren 1985 - 10-ball???

dirtypool40

dirtypool40

I love this freakin' game
Silver Member
Just listening to a youtube interview with Buddy.

First thing they asked him about was the "Ceasar Morales" game where he beat Efren.

He said they played 10-ball. First time I've ever heard this.

Any first hand accounts?

I'd love to hear more about this match.

Thanks in advance....:thumbup:
 
dirtypool40 said:
Just listening to a youtube interview with Buddy.

First thing they asked him about was the "Ceasar Morales" game where he beat Efren.

He said they played 10-ball. First time I've ever heard this.

Any first hand accounts?

I'd love to hear more about this match.

Thanks in advance....:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Was this at Reds in Houston? If so, there was quite a buzz about it and the fact that Buddy had been up for two days without sleep.
 
dirtypool40 said:
Just listening to a youtube interview with Buddy.

First thing they asked him about was the "Ceasar Morales" game where he beat Efren.

He said they played 10-ball. First time I've ever heard this.

Any first hand accounts?

I'd love to hear more about this match.

Thanks in advance....:thumbup:
Click to expand...

can you provide us with a link? much appreciated
 
I was there and played in the tournament at Red's in Houston. It was my first tournament after landing a sponsorship with a business in Warren, Ohio for a year. I was as green as I could be playing on tour, but I had been on the road for 12 years playing pool
with any and all challengers except the world champions. My first match was Jim Rempe who after being down 8 to 2 placed his famous $50.000.00 Meucci Gem cue around his neck with both hands over the cue bending it, heard a person from the crowd yell out "lets go Jim" looking at an impossible kick told the crowd that he said the only place he was going was to the loser bracket.
I played well in this tournament and played Ceasar (Efren) for a chance to go to the last 2 on the winner side. He played unbelievable. I will never forget the long rail kick to a ball between the side and corner that had to be followed to get position and it was tied 6 to 6. He made the kick and made position and beat me 9 to 6. I had the most games won against him in the tournament so far. Jim Matia I remember was talking to all the American players and saying lets not let this foreigner beat us all and lets go Mike. I remember Efren throwing out all 15 balls and running out in rotation practicing 3 times in a row. I had never even imagined what I had seen him do. He was gambling with any one that would play. He played Danny Medina first for $500.00 a game 9 ball and after losing the first 11 games he said he did not think he could win. Now the game of rotation came up and I remember Allen Hopkins and Mike Siegal saying that "what like we can't play rotation". Well Efren played about any game with anybody that would get up there and he went undefeated until after winning the tournament beating Wade Crain in the finals, standing room only. Buddy challenged Efren to a $5,000.00 10 ball match. Buddy played flawless and gave Efren a good spanking. This was the only match that Efren lost all week and from what I heard he only got a couple of hundred dollars for his end. He could not speak any English and did not know American currency. I heard his backers robbed him out of a decent percentage.
 
gulyassy said:
I was there and played in the tournament at Red's in Houston. It was my first tournament after landing a sponsorship with a business in Warren, Ohio for a year. I was as green as I could be playing on tour, but I had been on the road for 12 years playing pool
with any and all challengers except the world champions. My first match was Jim Rempe who after being down 8 to 2 placed his famous $50.000.00 Meucci Gem cue around his neck with both hands over the cue bending it, heard a person from the crowd yell out "lets go Jim" looking at an impossible kick told the crowd that he said the only place he was going was to the loser bracket.
I played well in this tournament and played Ceasar (Efren) for a chance to go to the last 2 on the winner side. He played unbelievable. I will never forget the long rail kick to a ball between the side and corner that had to be followed to get position and it was tied 6 to 6. He made the kick and made position and beat me 9 to 6. I had the most games won against him in the tournament so far. Jim Matia I remember was talking to all the American players and saying lets not let this foreigner beat us all and lets go Mike. I remember Efren throwing out all 15 balls and running out in rotation practicing 3 times in a row. I had never even imagined what I had seen him do. He was gambling with any one that would play. He played Danny Medina first for $500.00 a game 9 ball and after losing the first 11 games he said he did not think he could win. Now the game of rotation came up and I remember Allen Hopkins and Mike Siegal saying that "what like we can't play rotation". Well Efren played about any game with anybody that would get up there and he went undefeated until after winning the tournament beating Wade Crain in the finals, standing room only. Buddy challenged Efren to a $5,000.00 10 ball match. Buddy played flawless and gave Efren a good spanking. This was the only match that Efren lost all week and from what I heard he only got a couple of hundred dollars for his end. He could not speak any English and did not know American currency. I heard his backers robbed him out of a decent percentage.
Click to expand...

Thank you SO MUCH for this story!

I love to read things like this...

Do you happen to know how to use the Cuetable? Could you line up that kickshot of Efren for all of us to see?
 
gulyassy said:
I was there and played in the tournament at Red's in Houston. It was my first tournament after landing a sponsorship with a business in Warren, Ohio for a year. I was as green as I could be playing on tour, but I had been on the road for 12 years playing pool
with any and all challengers except the world champions. My first match was Jim Rempe who after being down 8 to 2 placed his famous $50.000.00 Meucci Gem cue around his neck with both hands over the cue bending it, heard a person from the crowd yell out "lets go Jim" looking at an impossible kick told the crowd that he said the only place he was going was to the loser bracket.
I played well in this tournament and played Ceasar (Efren) for a chance to go to the last 2 on the winner side. He played unbelievable. I will never forget the long rail kick to a ball between the side and corner that had to be followed to get position and it was tied 6 to 6. He made the kick and made position and beat me 9 to 6. I had the most games won against him in the tournament so far. Jim Matia I remember was talking to all the American players and saying lets not let this foreigner beat us all and lets go Mike. I remember Efren throwing out all 15 balls and running out in rotation practicing 3 times in a row. I had never even imagined what I had seen him do. He was gambling with any one that would play. He played Danny Medina first for $500.00 a game 9 ball and after losing the first 11 games he said he did not think he could win. Now the game of rotation came up and I remember Allen Hopkins and Mike Siegal saying that "what like we can't play rotation". Well Efren played about any game with anybody that would get up there and he went undefeated until after winning the tournament beating Wade Crain in the finals, standing room only. Buddy challenged Efren to a $5,000.00 10 ball match. Buddy played flawless and gave Efren a good spanking. This was the only match that Efren lost all week and from what I heard he only got a couple of hundred dollars for his end. He could not speak any English and did not know American currency. I heard his backers robbed him out of a decent percentage.
Click to expand...
Jay Halfert mentioned here Efren played below what he saw all week against Buddy.
Efren also beat Sigel playing rotation handily before playing Buddy ( Bludworth mentioned it here ).
Efren got rid of his manager and got a new one.
He was later sent back to the Philippines after getting caught with Caesar Morales' passport , I believe.
 
that was an awesome post. to a pool player, hearing a story from a guy who was there, thats like hearing the truth about JFK, or area 51.

justin.
 
gulyassy said:
I was there and played in the tournament at Red's in Houston. It was my first tournament after landing a sponsorship with a business in Warren, Ohio for a year. I was as green as I could be playing on tour, but I had been on the road for 12 years playing pool
with any and all challengers except the world champions. My first match was Jim Rempe who after being down 8 to 2 placed his famous $50.000.00 Meucci Gem cue around his neck with both hands over the cue bending it, heard a person from the crowd yell out "lets go Jim" looking at an impossible kick told the crowd that he said the only place he was going was to the loser bracket.
I played well in this tournament and played Ceasar (Efren) for a chance to go to the last 2 on the winner side. He played unbelievable. I will never forget the long rail kick to a ball between the side and corner that had to be followed to get position and it was tied 6 to 6. He made the kick and made position and beat me 9 to 6. I had the most games won against him in the tournament so far. Jim Matia I remember was talking to all the American players and saying lets not let this foreigner beat us all and lets go Mike. I remember Efren throwing out all 15 balls and running out in rotation practicing 3 times in a row. I had never even imagined what I had seen him do. He was gambling with any one that would play. He played Danny Medina first for $500.00 a game 9 ball and after losing the first 11 games he said he did not think he could win. Now the game of rotation came up and I remember Allen Hopkins and Mike Siegal saying that "what like we can't play rotation". Well Efren played about any game with anybody that would get up there and he went undefeated until after winning the tournament beating Wade Crain in the finals, standing room only. Buddy challenged Efren to a $5,000.00 10 ball match. Buddy played flawless and gave Efren a good spanking. This was the only match that Efren lost all week and from what I heard he only got a couple of hundred dollars for his end. He could not speak any English and did not know American currency. I heard his backers robbed him out of a decent percentage.
Click to expand...



Thanks Mike for bringing us back down memory lane! We need more of this!
Post like was the one I was looking for. Check this thread out! http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=54155&page=2


efren_caesar.gif
 
gulyassy said:
I was there and played in the tournament at Red's in Houston. It was my first tournament after landing a sponsorship with a business in Warren, Ohio for a year. I was as green as I could be playing on tour, but I had been on the road for 12 years playing pool
with any and all challengers except the world champions. My first match was Jim Rempe who after being down 8 to 2 placed his famous $50.000.00 Meucci Gem cue around his neck with both hands over the cue bending it, heard a person from the crowd yell out "lets go Jim" looking at an impossible kick told the crowd that he said the only place he was going was to the loser bracket.
I played well in this tournament and played Ceasar (Efren) for a chance to go to the last 2 on the winner side. He played unbelievable. I will never forget the long rail kick to a ball between the side and corner that had to be followed to get position and it was tied 6 to 6. He made the kick and made position and beat me 9 to 6. I had the most games won against him in the tournament so far. Jim Matia I remember was talking to all the American players and saying lets not let this foreigner beat us all and lets go Mike. I remember Efren throwing out all 15 balls and running out in rotation practicing 3 times in a row. I had never even imagined what I had seen him do. He was gambling with any one that would play. He played Danny Medina first for $500.00 a game 9 ball and after losing the first 11 games he said he did not think he could win. Now the game of rotation came up and I remember Allen Hopkins and Mike Siegal saying that "what like we can't play rotation". Well Efren played about any game with anybody that would get up there and he went undefeated until after winning the tournament beating Wade Crain in the finals, standing room only. Buddy challenged Efren to a $5,000.00 10 ball match. Buddy played flawless and gave Efren a good spanking. This was the only match that Efren lost all week and from what I heard he only got a couple of hundred dollars for his end. He could not speak any English and did not know American currency. I heard his backers robbed him out of a decent percentage.
Click to expand...

A good story and Mike has good memory for the most part. One small correction, Buddy and Efren played 9-Ball for the 10K. I called hits on several shots. Once again, it was the worst I saw Efren play all week, he missed several shots. Buddy played so so, definitely not flawless, but it was good enough to win.
 
jay helfert said:
A good story and Mike has good memory for the most part. One small correction, Buddy and Efren played 9-Ball for the 10K. I called hits on several shots. Once again, it was the worst I saw Efren play all week, he missed several shots. Buddy played so so, definitely not flawless, but it was good enough to win.
Click to expand...

That's why I asked. Buddy in his interview said 10-ball, but no one jumped on it, or asked him to confirm it. I had always heard 9-ball.

Nice to hear from someone who was there.

Thanks to Jay and Mike :thumbup:
 
Since Efren's backer at the time was evidently a crook, I'm glad Buddy took down the money.

It would be a lot harder, if not impossible, for a player to fly under the radar under an alias today like Efren did back then. If Caesar Morales started beating everybody in today's world, somebody would get on the internet and figure out who he is.
 
For me the point was that Efren was in top form, had just taken down the tournament, and beaten several of the very top guys and Buddy STILL stepped up rather than waiting. That takes guts and heart.

A lot of guys from any level would duck a guy in top form, whether it's a guy who won the local $10 tourney, or a pro who seems a couple balls stronger than everyone has them rated. We've seen this happen.

Who among us has the heart to see guys our level get waxed and lay our neck on the block as next in line?

Clearly both Efren and Buddy are on the short list of "best all time", and at that level it can go either way on any given day. Props to both.
 
dirtypool40 said:
That's why I asked. Buddy in his interview said 10-ball, but no one jumped on it, or asked him to confirm it. I had always heard 9-ball.

Nice to hear from someone who was there.

Thanks to Jay and Mike :thumbup:
Click to expand...

jay helfert said:
A good story and Mike has good memory for the most part. One small correction, Buddy and Efren played 9-Ball for the 10K. I called hits on several shots. Once again, it was the worst I saw Efren play all week, he missed several shots. Buddy played so so, definitely not flawless, but it was good enough to win.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure in Rags to Rifleman (W.W.Woody's Book), his account of the match was also that it was 10-Ball.

Efren may have told me this as well.

In fact, I think Buddy is the only one to have beaten Efren, playing even, in any rotation game in the USA (non-tournament).
 
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CrownCityCorey said:
I am pretty sure in Rags to Rifleman (W.W.Woody's Book), his account of the match was also that it was 10-Ball.

Efren may have told me this as well.

In fact, I think Buddy is the only one to have beaten Efren, playing even, in any rotation game in the USA (non-tournament).
Click to expand...

They played Ten Ahead 9-Ball for 10K total. Buddy won in less than two hours. I was sitting in the front row and when a shot had to be called, they motioned for me. One time I got up to call a hit and some big Texan yelled at me "Down in front!" It was the same night the tourney ended. The place was packed for this match and it was on the same table Efren had just won the tourney on. Efren and friends were supposed to come back the next day for more, but they ducked out of town, big winners.

Buddy was put in the box by some local money guys. It was the first time he played Efren all week. He was our top gun back then, seemingly unbeatable. By then no one else was willing to get in the box with Efren, except maybe Wade Crane, but he didn't have the backers. Efren finally looked a little weary, after all he had been playing almost non stop for a week. No one else had beaten Efren that week at any game he played, and he must have played 8-10 other top players besides his tournament matches.
 
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iirc, it was stated here that there was a strong possibility that in order to increase the chance of a safe exit, Efren didn't try too hard to win.
 
Black-Balled said:
iirc, it was stated here that there was a strong possibility that in order to increase the chance of a safe exit, Efren didn't try too hard to win.
Click to expand...

I said that, and I thought that too. He just didn't look nearly the same in that match with Buddy. I had been watching him all week and he wasn't missing anything, and his position was flawless. He was robbing everyone and giving up major weight.
 
Jaybird you are losing it...

jay helfert said:
A good story and Mike has good memory for the most part. One small correction, Buddy and Efren played 9-Ball for the 10K. I called hits on several shots. Once again, it was the worst I saw Efren play all week, he missed several shots. Buddy played so so, definitely not flawless, but it was good enough to win.
Click to expand...

They played 10 ball Jay. I was also there. Somehow you must have had too many games balls hang up on you. They have clouded your brain. You can confirm with Grady, Wade Crane and Keith who also played Efren. Efren didn't beat everybody. He broke even with Keith playing 9 ball on the bar table. I was in with Keith. We won the first set and Effie won the next decisivly caroming in many 9 balls. It seemed like Efren was getting very "lucky." I didn't like what I was seeing and we packed it in. My memory is also suspect in many departments, Jay, and Keith may have played 4 sets and broke even, instead of two.

the Beard

Plus my pool nose told me something smelled about that match, whether Efren had been threatened and maybe sluffed one off, or he punished the rats that were staking him and giving him a very bad percentage (I think it was only 10%), or something else.
 
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Serves them right! If I were Efren, I would convince these scumbags who's staking him to back him one more
time in a huge money game and dump them, he would probably gotten a better "deal" from the other side...
 
freddy the beard said:
They played 10 ball Jay. I was also there. Somehow you must have had too many games balls hang up on you. They have clouded your brain. You can confirm with Grady, Wade Crane and Keith who also played Efren. Efren didn't beat everybody. He broke even with Keith playing 9 ball on the bar table. I was in with Keith. We won the first set and Effie won the next decisivly caroming in many 9 balls. It seemed like Efren was getting very "lucky." I didn't like what I was seeing and we packed it in. My memory is also suspect in many departments, Jay, and Keith may have played 4 sets and broke even, instead of two.

the Beard

Plus my pool nose told me something smelled about that match, whether Efren had been threatened and maybe sluffed one off, or he punished the rats that were staking him and giving him a very bad percentage (I think it was only 10%), or something else.
Click to expand...
Did you ever hear about Earl getting threatened at The Color of Money with Efren? :cool:
 
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