New direction for the players

[bigskyjake]

Here is my take on this: I don't necessarily fault the players that were asked to defer to the booth when asked for an autograph. After all , it is there livelihood and any extra income is a plus when the pay is already horrible. However, I don't think the market is there and may never be there to allow a big windfall from pool autographs. The few dollars made from this venture will most likely not be worth the loss of respect for the players and certainly the vendor. I once told a stripper that sitting next to me was Shannon Daulton, one of the best pool players in the world and asked if she wanted him to sign her boob. She smiled but declined. I would like to have a signed picture taken of me and all of the champions I have gone out with and taken shots with at one time or another. Now that would be some cool memorabilia!

This is easily the best pool story I have ever heard

REP, son

 

[jimmy-leggs]

There's plenty of room in the middle here. Trying to stop folks from signing autographs for free isn't going to do anyone any favors. However, setting up a booth where folks get in line to pay for a custom signed nine ball, hat, or T-shirt, with a name of their choice is a good way to make everyone happy and make great gifts. This notion of pre signed stuff is cold and impersonal.

Also, all we need are a bunch of internet posts about how some high and mighty so and so wouldn't sign an autograph unless they were paid for it.

Yes,I would love to hear these stories.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Freddy,
For whatever my opinion is worth to you, this is one of the worst ideas that I've ever read on these forums. I would say THE WORST, but you're my friend.
Where to start....
First thing I thought of when I read your post was that this is Aprtil Fools Day early. Just after that, Don Mackey came to mind. Do you remember him? Your post could just have easily been authored by Mackey. That is how he started also and look where that fiasco took evryone.

Why would you even think of something like that? Do you really believe that the pro players are that full of themselves that they will not sign at photo for a fan? I'm 48 and since age 11 I've been in love, deeply, with pool. In all that time, the only time I ever saw a pro turn down a fan's request for an autograph was when Mika Immonen stiffed that guy at Valley Forge that I wrote about some time back.

ALMOST WITHOUT EXCEPTION< EVERY PRO I EVER ASKED TO SIGN A PHOTO WAS GRATEFUL AND THANKFUL AND SEEMINGLY HUMBLED THAT SOMEONE CARED THAT MUCH TO ASK FOR AN AUTOGRAPH. Read that again. They enjoyed being asked almost as much as I enjoyed having a personalized photo.

Do you think the pro players are that full of themselves now? That they're that hard up for an extra $5.00? Or are you going to suggest that they hold off for $25.00 per photo? Who determiines the going price of who? If me and Earl pose together, I mail him the photo to autograph, does he have to call you first to see how much he can get for it?

Freddy, are you really serious and have you spent any time whatsoever at all thinking this thru? Do you really want to drive fans away from pool? What do you think the average fan, who does not frequent our hallowed forum and so is unaware of this latest SCEME in pooldom, what do you think that fan will think of pro players when he or she asked for an autograph and that pro says "I need a 10 spot first." Or "Wait, I have to call The Beard to see what he thinks I should get from this."

I have been a staunch defender of the pro players for a long time. If you are really looking after their best interests, why don't you use some of your energy, pull and resources to form a new pro tour? You trying to orginize the pro players to hold out for the crumbs they would get for an autograph is like passing out band-aids to the passengers of the Titanic.

And have you thought about this....After all the requests for autographs dries up, then what are you going to do to draw back the fans you alienated? Remember the baseball strike? Greedy people? Lost fans?

And how much demand is there anyway for a pro pool player's autograph?
If Oliver Ortmann, Fong Pang Chao, Vilmos Foldes, Evgeny Stalev, or pick an American, if Shane Van Boening, Earl Strickland or Corey Deuel walked into the neighborhood WalMart, do you really think they're going to get swarmed by fans?

I could go on, but I think I've made my opinion clear. Freddy, you know from our talks that I love and respect you dearly. That has not changed at all. I have oodles of appreciation for you. But this is a terrible idea.
Terrible. Where do you think this would all end up? Do you think that this will cause the fan base to grow? Or is it another blemish on Joe Public's view of most pool players....greedy bums too lazy to work like everyone else. I hear that all the time from my friends, and it's getting harder to defend people who won't, not can't but WON'T work like most responsible Americans have to.

I vote 2 thumbs down.

 

[Blackjack]

Here is my take on this: I don't necessarily fault the players that were asked to defer to the booth when asked for an autograph. After all , it is there livelihood and any extra income is a plus when the pay is already horrible. However, I don't think the market is there and may never be there to allow a big windfall from pool autographs. The few dollars made from this venture will most likely not be worth the loss of respect for the players and certainly the vendor. I once told a stripper that sitting next to me was Shannon Daulton, one of the best pool players in the world and asked if she wanted him to sign her boob. She smiled but declined. I would like to have a signed picture taken of me and all of the champions I have gone out with and taken shots with at one time or another. Now that would be some cool memorabilia!

How much do you think that boob would sell for on e-bay?

Here's 2 signed by a couple of future hall of famers...

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[Johnnyt]

Years ago only kids would go up to sports stars and ask for his or her autograph. Now it's an million or billion dollar business selling them and more adults are in line for the autographs for the money than the kids.

I've never asked a player in any sport for their autograph. If I wanted it bad enough I'd pay for it. JMO. Johnnyt

 

[cleary]

Ive never really understood the whole autographing thing. Is it to prove you met someone? It kind of makes me sad when people worship celebrities, musicians and athletes. And to put a value on someones signature is really pretty silly. Earl Strickland is a person.... just like Tom Cruise, Vanilla Ice, my mom Susan, a little Swedish kid named Emil, and myself. The only signature that means anything to me is the one on the bottom of my checks.

 

[freddy the beard]

Memorabia, fellas-- not a piece of paper.

Am I to understand that you all want free cueballs and trophy cases? The autograph is a part of the piece of memorabilia. Every piece of sports equip or memorabilia in the sports world-- except pool-- costs big money and the athletes get a commission. You want Michael Jordan Nike shoes for nothing? Those aint even signed personally by him. This aint about a piece of paper. It's more of an endorsement. How many free signed baseballs do you get at ball parks? Check out the souvenir stands inside and outside the parks, and youre not even getting a real signature, its a copy. Danny DiLiberto put it best to me, he said he quit signing cueballs because he thought they were going to keep them for themselves, but he kept seeing them up for sale for $50 on ebay.
the Beard

Thanks for the input, but I'm going ahead anyway.

 

[corvette1340]

How much do you think that boob would sell for on e-bay?

Here's 2 signed by a couple of future hall of famers...

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lol, I might give you a few dollars for the right boob with your sig. on it, but the other one is just a boob signing a boob, lol.

 

[MikeJanis]

There's plenty of room in the middle here. Trying to stop folks from signing autographs for free isn't going to do anyone any favors. However, setting up a booth where folks get in line to pay for a custom signed nine ball, hat, or T-shirt, with a name of their choice is a good way to make everyone happy and make great gifts. .

Freddy, this looks like a really good idea from Da Poet.

I would suggest that you have signing times and sit the champs down for an hour or so and let the fans meet them as they are signing the ball or whatever it is. They (the fans) should also be allowed to bring 1 item of their own to get signed as well.

IMHO, Mj

 

[Johnnyt]

Ive never really understood the whole autographing thing. Is it to prove you met someone? It kind of makes me sad when people worship celebrities, musicians and athletes. And to put a value on someones signature is really pretty silly. Earl Strickland is a person.... just like Tom Cruise, Vanilla Ice, my mom Susan, a little Swedish kid named Emil, and myself. The only signature that means anything to me is the one on the bottom of my checks.

I agree. Johnnyt

 

[Russ Chewning]

Ouch. It looks like the majority has reached a consensus. FWIW, I don't like the idea either.

Russ

 

[lodini]

Am I to understand that you all want free cueballs and trophy cases? The autograph is a part of the piece of memorabilia. Every piece of sports equip or memorabilia in the sports world-- except pool-- costs big money and the athletes get a commission. You want Michael Jordan Nike shoes for nothing? Those aint even signed personally by him. This aint about a piece of paper. It's more of an endorsement. How many free signed baseballs do you get at ball parks? Check out the souvenir stands inside and outside the parks, and youre not even getting a real signature, its a copy. Danny DiLiberto put it best to me, he said he quit signing cueballs because he thought they were going to keep them for themselves, but he kept seeing them up for sale for $50 on ebay.
the Beard

Thanks for the input, but I'm going ahead anyway.

There is definitely a big difference between going up to a pro pool player with your own cue ball in hand and asking for an autograph, OR expecting the player to provide the cue ball with autograph for free. Which are you talking about in this thread? I had taken many baseballs which I have purchased on my own and brought them to a ballpark and walked away with free signatures on them, for me to do with whatever I please.

I don't think anyone here is questioning whether people should be paying for the merchandise itself. But let's be honest here, the merchandise is what costs money, not the autograph. I think we all originally took what you said as in anyone going up to a pro pool player looking for an autograph would be charged money for that service.

 

[Russ Chewning]

How much do you think that boob would sell for on e-bay?

Here's 2 signed by a couple of future hall of famers...

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Dave,

You now how some artwork/documents are kept in climate controlled conditions to preserve the quality of the paint/ink??

I think you might want to consider turning the air conditioning up as cold as it will go, to "preserve these signatures".

Preservation... Yeah, that's the ticket!

Russ

 

[Williebetmore]

"memorabilia not a piece of paper."

the Beard

Thanks for the input, but I'm going ahead anyway.

Freddie,
We are confused. Your first post in this thread says specifically, "The players I talked to have agreed to not sign anything for free at DCC."

That means paper, balls, photo's, boobs or anything else provided by the fan outside of your autograph sessions.

That is what is repulsive to the posters so far. NO ONE has objected to selling signed memorabilia; that's a fine idea. A player who refuses to sign things outside of these sessions is a player who will find that he has less fans than before.

 

[ShootingArts]

for sale!

OK, I'm aboard this idea to make a buck off of a signature. I have a deluxe limited edition paperback copy of "Banking With the Beard" hand signed by none other than Freddy himself! The retail price of this book without signature, if any exist, is $29.95 plus shipping. However this slightly dog-eared and well used book with signature can be yours for the low low price of $2000, shipping included!

Please PT be right, I need just one!

Hu

 

[cleary]

Freddie, We are confused.

Yep! He seems to be saying two different things.

 

[CrownCityCorey]

Great Idea; However........

I am putting together an organization that will insure that the players get paid for their autographs. No more cue balls, shirts, photos, or sticks signed for nix. Every other sports celebrity in the world gets paid big money to sign sports gear, but not our guys. I am going to try and change all that. I talked to all the major players at the Olympics in Louisville this Nov. To a man they were all excited by the idea. To start it off I paid all of them -- in front-- to sign some cue balls and other stuff. I am going to have them, and other top players, from Efren on down, pre-autograph sports gear to be marketed from my booth at DCC and then on my website with the boys getting a cut of everything they sign -- in front. At Derby City I will be at a booth that will have, among other things, pre-autographed memorabilia, and the ability to provide -- on request -- autographs on whatever memorabilia the fans provide, their shirts, sticks, whatever. The players will get paid for every signature. I am then going to take it further and solicit the big billiard supply companies and allow them to advertise and sell, officially autographed memorabilia, balls, cues, clothing, etc. I'm also going to hit on the cuemakers and allow them to sell their sticks with a real autograph on them, not a machine print. Naturally, that would allow the cuemakers to charge a few bucks extra for a special edition cue. For this service they would pay our organization a fee. The players I talked to have agreed to not sign anything for free at DCC. They will refer all requests to my booth. To give an idea of what the marketing for this stuff might look like on a suppliers catalog page, I'm including a preview of some of the marketing I am going to do on my webpage where I am going to solicit requests for autographed cueballs and display cases. A fan can reserve an autographed cueball and trophy case and I will get his ball signed for him at Derby City in Jan.

The Beard
(exception: the Bugs signed cueballs on display below are not for sale)

I'll support this idea--modified. I will not, nor would I expect or accept any pro player denying a fan an autograph.

However, if it is obvious that the supposed fan's intention is to resell the item, then a denial is appropriate and referral to your booth should follow.

 

[ScottW]

I agree, I think this is (largely) a Bad Idea.

It's essentially saying "money comes before the fans". I've no zero problem with the pros wanting to make a decent living off of pool - more power to'em - but there's a line that one can cross, and I think this is it.

Folks who start refusing to sign autographs without getting paid may well find they're signing less autographs as a whole - paid or not - as people stop approaching them.

I'd find a happy medium here - set up a booth at DCC and have various pros stop by for an hour or so - have some merchandise there for sale that the pros will sign. SELL the merchandise, of course, for a few bucks more than it would go for normally, and toss the difference to the pro signing it. But don't put the kibosh on people being able to approach a pro wandering around and asking them to sign some item they have in their possession. That just tears the heart out of the whole thing, IMHO.

 

[rayjay]

Bad idea. This might make Freddy a couple of bucks, and might make the players a few cents, but nobody is going to get rich off of this. What it will do is alienate the fans from the players and Freddy. I guess all the recent OJ headlines brought this amazing brainstorming up...

 

[freddy the beard]

Little Johnny will still get his autograph

I should have been more clear in my initial post. This is not about denying little Johnny his free autograph. The players will still sign autographs -- if they feel like it -- on paper, programs etc. They will not sign PRODUCTS OR SOUVENIRS without an endorsement commission -- and why should they? An Ivan Roderiguez baseball glove aint free, and he gets his cut for his replicated signature and endorsement. These are like mini-endorsements, and a way for the players to make a buck.

the Beard