TVmike has proven untrustworthy

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brandoncook26 said:
Hey TvMike, I have a question. How much would it cost to send him another set of DVDs and do the right thing? If he says he never got them, why would you assume he is lying? He obviously told you he received the others.

If I bought a DVD from Tar or Accu-stats and it never showed up, do you think they would say "Just send us some more money and we'll send you out another one"? I realize this is between the seller and distributor but the same general principle applies.

It couldn't cost you more than $10-20 in DVDs and cases to send him another package. Why isn't that the best thing to do to keep your name intact?

Am I missing something? It seems strange that anyone would lie about 1/4 packages. I don't even care that it's Jay, it could be anyone.
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he wouldn't understand what your saying, and you are 100% right, a business man should know all about this.

one time I've ordered DVDs online from USA, and I live in the middle-east, the DVDs arrived, then I put them into my DVDs and they didn't work, apparentely they are a different Region code or whatever, so my DVD player couldn't read them, I sent an email to the business company that I bought the DVDs from, guess what? They refunded me the full money and said that I can keep the DVDs or give away to charity.

now if this happens with Mike, guess what he will say? I'm sure all of you guessed it, he would say "It's your mistake for not knowing about the differently in region, so I can't refund you anything"

lol, what a guy, and yes it could be my mistake, I know, but a great business company would want their name up top, so they make it right to their customers, always.

customer is always right.
make the customer happy.

these are the two first rules for business, and he doesn't seem to get them at all.
 
Actually that's not correct...

jrt30004 said:
ok first off, i am not going to comment about you and jay and the fight. not my fight so nothing to say.
i will comment on the first paragraph i quoted like this: it is not automatically your property if you were hired as a camera man and nothing more. if you have the contract that says it yours than it's yours. if there is only a verbal contract than good luck in court to both of you.
now my comment on the second paragraph. you are nasty and unprofessional. we have those views based on how you have presented yourself. you were rude during the bad blood event when we all paid and coulnd't see the event and you did nothing to make us feel better about getting screwed. your reply here is borderline hostile as well. if you have the proof you are right just say so. say you have a tracking number for the package and the contract to say you own the rights and then tell jay you'll settle in private. no, you get on and write a novel about how you're not this and that and you've done this and that. you already got a time out here for shameless self promotion bordering on spam and then you sold that horrific box set of the botched bad blood event. seriously, quit while you're behind.
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If this is filmed in a public place, the intellectual rights belong to the filmer if there is no specific agreement in place. If there was a verbal agreement in place, then it is legally binding, just almost impossible to prove without affirmed witnesses through testimony or affidavit. Yeah, unfortunately these days you have to get everything in writing...

Jaden
 
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brandoncook26 said:
It couldn't cost you more than $10-20 in DVDs and cases to send him another package. Why isn't that the best thing to do to keep your name intact? Am I missing something? Snip...
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TAP . . . TAP . . . TAP
Now stop reading my mind Brandon!!! ;)
 
Because this was filmed at the DCC--- the intellectual property rights belong to Greg Sullivan first and foremost. It's HIS event and HIS matches.

If Greg provided permission for those matches to be recorded and resold (in writing), then the rights (with nothing in writing) are with those who own the camera equipment (if that person was not a contractor). If the person was a paid contractor, the IP goes to the paying party.

(in that order)

I don't have a dog in the fight -- I'm just clearing that one single point up.

Just because you have a match on your camera doesn't make you the auto-owner without the previous OK from the DCC in writing. Even if only a verbal OK - the DCC could (hypothetically) say it never happened and they want their IP back.

I'm just saying... because I've been in a situation like this before. That's the order of operations.
 
I would like to know more about the original deal on or before the streaming event happened. I don't care if it is writing ,,if someone don't keep their word,,,,they ain't shit!!! It's a huge thing in my book.

And it seems to be skipped right over here. Seems the OP is backpeddling just to get something out of it since he now holds no cards. I don't know what the truth is, but I find it hard to believe anyone just wakes up one day and decides to make all this up.

Sorry MIke but the OP's story sounds much more believable. I like what you are trying to do(the streaming locally) but it seems you have had nothing but problems since you have become a professional pool journalist!!!

Did the OP set streamer up ,,to do the stream with intentions of getting DVD's and selling them,,then splitting proceeds with streamer?? Is that what happened??? That is what makes sense,,,and then after the fact,,streamer realizes,,with no written contract,,, I don't need him anymore. lmao

Judge Judy would be *****ing you both out for not having this in writing. Telling you both what terrible business men you are. Then with a swift kick in the ass she would try to decide some type of justice where neither one of you would be happy.

Good Luck,,,what a mess!!! Where's the popcorn I seen earlier??
 
Mr Hoppe said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncook26
It couldn't cost you more than $10-20 in DVDs and cases to send him another package. Why isn't that the best thing to do to keep your name intact? Am I missing something? Snip...

TAP . . . TAP . . . TAP
Now stop reading my mind Brandon!!! ;)
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If cash is tight then charge him JUST $10 to $20 for the actual cost! But, Mike keeps saying he wants MORE than materials cost???? He already PAID you once and has nothing to show for it.

Why wouldn't you offer to reship at actual MATERIAL cost??????
 
Fatboy2 said:
I replied to spanky79 with this post, I meant to just bust his chops, it was late and a poor choice of words. I never had those intentions, instead of just deleting it, I'm leaving it up and makig a appology to him. I never intended to insult him, or brag etc. It just came out wrong and the spirit of my feelings was not conveyed, me being a asshole was being conveyed and that was not my intentions.

I hope spanky79 accepets my appology and i'll do 10 push-ups, as a plenality Sir! yes sir! sir!

sincerly Eric
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NO need ERIC I knew where you were coming from, don't hurt your back with those push ups
 
brandoncook26 said:
Hey TvMike, I have a question. How much would it cost to send him another set of DVDs and do the right thing? If he says he never got them, why would you assume he is lying? He obviously told you he received the others.

If I bought a DVD from Tar or Accu-stats and it never showed up, do you think they would say "Just send us some more money and we'll send you out another one"? I realize this is between the seller and distributor but the same general principle applies.

It couldn't cost you more than $10-20 in DVDs and cases to send him another package. Why isn't that the best thing to do to keep your name intact?

Am I missing something? It seems strange that anyone would lie about 1/4 packages. I don't even care that it's Jay, it could be anyone.
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I also agree with what you say. In many cultures, a man will defend his honor with his life. In the pool culture, it seems that honor isn't even worth a couple of hundred bucks...
 
Without taking sides my free advice to tv Mike would be to burn another copy and send it to Jay. If you do business the right way it will help you get more business in the future.

Hopefully it can get resolved in a way that makes everybody happy.
 
jay helfert said:
Nice speech Mike. I KNOW you never sent the DVD's in question. You have continually side stepped my questions about a tracking number. And by the way, the first two DVD's of Mika and John S. were sent to my home address. Maybe you forgot this relevant fact. Why all of sudden do you decide to ship them to my P.O. Box. I specifically asked you to only ship to my home address.

If you want to keep what reputation you have left intact, I would suggest you IMMEDIATELY ship the Alex DVD's to me, as promised months ago. Quit stalling and begging for money, and just make them up and send them out. Nothing less will suffice anymore. Please save your speeches for someone else. I'm not impressed.
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I don't know about the USPS, but UPS will not even attempt to ship to a P.O. box.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Because this was filmed at the DCC--- the intellectual property rights belong to Greg Sullivan first and foremost. It's HIS event and HIS matches.

If Greg provided permission for those matches to be recorded and resold (in writing), then the rights (with nothing in writing) are with those who own the camera equipment (if that person was not a contractor). If the person was a paid contractor, the IP goes to the paying party.

(in that order)

I don't have a dog in the fight -- I'm just clearing that one single point up.

Just because you have a match on your camera doesn't make you the auto-owner without the previous OK from the DCC in writing. Even if only a verbal OK - the DCC could (hypothetically) say it never happened and they want their IP back.

I'm just saying... because I've been in a situation like this before. That's the order of operations.
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Exactly.

You can't bring a camera to a movie theater and record the movie and sell it on DVD.
 
J pays

M claims to have shipped

J doesn't receive

M wants more $$$ to re-ship

my opinion:

J wouldn't zoom anybody for a lousy $160, a mil or 2 might be different:)

M,

make J whole

A===>thinks this is silly
 
Jaden said:
If this is filmed in a public place, the intellectual rights belong to the filmer if there is no specific agreement in place. If there was a verbal agreement in place, then it is legally binding, just almost impossible to prove without affirmed witnesses through testimony or affidavit. Yeah, unfortunately these days you have to get everything in writing...

Jaden
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that was my point. if he was hired esentially as a film crew, then he has nothing. and if all there was, was a verbal agreenment, good luck to both of them trying to prove who gets what.
 
TVmike said:
Of course you’re going to post first about this experience because you think people will believe you more than they will believe me because your Mr Pool. Up until recently I had nothing bad to say about you to anyone. My question is why do you think after mailing you Mika DVDS got paid, Schmidt DVDS got paid, Alex DVDS which you say you didn’t get then 1 week later mailing you a Bad Blood Box set which you got. Why do you think out of those 4 packages mysteriously you get all psychotic on me claiming I outright ripped you off for package 3, and why is it that you didn’t receive package 3. So I know that facts to be that they were mailed as I exactly stated within a week of us decided the format to building the DVDS for the Alex set. I don’t know how many times I told you to check your po box because they should have been there. Why else would I be asking you for payment for the DVDS if I didn’t know you got them already? Yes I did ask you if you could send me the money upfront because I was going to send them shortly anyways.

Your story has many many holes and inconsistencies and out right inaccuracies. Honestly I really appreciate that you paid me when you got the DVDS so why do you think I would be dicking you around for these Alex P DVDS when I need the money to live? Wouldn’t I be rushing to get them to you so I could get the money? Yes of course I would.

Do you really want me to post all our communication with dates and so forth on here and also divulge certain specifics of how business was handled at DCC? I should just for the fact that you think *I* do not have intellectual property rights for this material and that you will somehow stop me from selling DVDS. Is this a comedy act or something? First of all anything recorded on my cameras is instantly my intellectual property. You couldn’t or anyone else for that matter tell me that anything I didn’t cover was not my property to do with as I pleased and you sure as hell couldn’t legally claim it unless you had an agreement on paper which stated such. FYI I wrote a contract for Bad Blood that secured them in writing that were inherently mine anyways but I wrote a contract just in case anyone would think otherwise.

Actually contrary to many people’s views I’m not a nasty unprofessional person and for you to publicly slander me about this is ANOTHER reason why pool is where it is. It is a HUGE reflection of the character of people involved in pool.

So we are at somewhat of an impasse because I mailed the DVDS and I know they were mailed so it’s either 1. Your lying about getting them or 2. Out of 4 packages 1 was lost even though it was sent via Po Box to Po Box method which is very unlikely considering you got the other package which was addressed the same. Your issue you raising what address was used and “he keeps lying about a track numbers” are red herring distractions which obfuscate either that You got them and your lying Or you didn’t get them. I really don’t like the way you communicate so it’s leading me to believe that, You are lying because you know how bad I need the money to survive so how easy would it to screw me out of $160? Quite easy and at the same time take it out on me for actually paying me for my work in shape or another. As we both know and you admitted that you didn’t pay me anything to do the job out of courtesy considering how much work and skill was involved when the tale of tape was read I was really surprised to not be offered anything. I enjoyed collaborating and the way we in general worked together and our conversation and insight into the players but was disappointed because I must of spent $600 out of my pocket for expenses. Hence when I got home I was not very keen on the idea of just sending you DVDS and having you pay me some money later. On top of the work it took to create the authors in the first place there was no way in my right mind could just roll over in that fashion. This IS work and a considerable amount of skill.

So that is where we are right now. I do not want turn this thread into a trainwreck full of negativity so if possibly I would like to work something out with you where you either pay for the package lost at a discounted rate or pay for these dvds upfront or something. I seriously cannot afford to just be some push over here. I understand you have a good reputation in the pool community and you can do people favors and you giving me compliments or a job referral would hold some weight. But I feel thoughly disrespected for the many comments you have made regarding my honesty and character.

TvMike
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TvMike,

Did you agree to do the footage and have Jay sell the DVD's and you take a %age. That seems to me to be the bottom line. Jay says you did. What do you say. Is Jay lying about this or did you agree and then once you realized the cost involved, needed to renogotiate. All the other stuff is afterthough as to what the original agreement was.

Enquiring minds want/need to know so we know the actual facts.

Leagueguy.
 
asbani said:
customer is always right.
make the customer happy.

these are the two first rules for business, and he doesn't seem to get them at all.
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Sadly, there are plenty of businesses that don't understand this. Sometimes you have to take a hit instead of being stubborn.
 
alstl said:
That's because UPS isn't the U S Mail. Hopefully tv Mike didn't make the mistake of using UPS.
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I'm not sure he could have made that mistake because UPS would not accept the package. If he had left it at his door for UPS pick up either the driver would have left it here (probably with a note) or UPS would have brought it back once it got to their distribution center and they realized the addressee was box number.
 
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